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  1. #1

    Default Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Is it good practice to add a composition after initial mix. For example, a day or two later adding .08 of say tobacco abs etc?

    Also, I'm struggling to get precise with the plastic pipettes. Are there any pipettes you recommend that can get more accurate precise weighing of material?

    Thank you

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by BonyMontana View Post
    Is it good practice to add a composition after initial mix. For example, a day or two later adding .08 of say tobacco abs etc?

    Also, I'm struggling to get precise with the plastic pipettes.
    It is fine to add afterwards.
    You are struggling to have accuracy for fine amounts, because your sample size is too small, dictating tiny amounts.

    Increase your sample size to 10g.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    It is fine to add afterwards.
    You are struggling to have accuracy for fine amounts, because your sample size is too small, dictating tiny amounts.

    Increase your sample size to 10g.
    Thank you and you hit it right on the nail. The sample size is I made is small. This is fun stuff

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post

    Increase your sample size to 10g.

    I just dilute when sketching so I don’t dump so much. You can get fantastic resolution from tenths or hundredths percent dilutions. Why don’t you advise them to do this?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicomoro View Post
    I just dilute when sketching so I donít dump so much. You can get fantastic resolution from tenths or hundredths percent dilutions. Why donít you advise them to do this?
    Thank you for the response and recommendation. I was given this advice the other day in another post. Diluting my material has been much easier to work with and I've been getting some good results.

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    The way I see it....if you want accurate dosing you only have to do 1 of 2 things....

    1) increase your trial size, so a single drop of your material is right where you want it in your formula (or less)..

    Or . .....

    2) pre-dilute your materials, so a single drop of your material is right where you want it to be in your formula (or less)

    Example: if your trial formula calls for a single material to be at 10 parts per thousand in the formula, and you know that a single drop if this material 'neat' will be above this.....you have to decide one of the 2 options above.

    I personally use option 2, mostly because I make many many many trial batches before I'm satisfied with a blend, and I don't like burning though this many materials on "tinkering and trials". Plus I don't order materials by the kilogram....so I'm trying to not keep much material overhead.
    Last edited by Bkkorn; 22nd November 2020 at 02:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by BonyMontana View Post
    Thank you for the response and recommendation. I was given this advice the other day in another post. Diluting my material has been much easier to work with and I've been getting some good results.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
    The only problem o can see with dilution is not having a good scale, but there are a few under a hundred bucks that are actually surprisingly consistent at the mg level (which, in reality, you only use to assess the accuracy of your hundredths) and it’ll pay itself off super quickly compared to wasting material. I assume most of us have one but I’m just throwing it out there for anyone super new who’s reading & interested. Paul recommends one or two of these budget scales (search feature should turn something up).

    I have teeensy tiny dilutions for so many of my materials. Well, I guess problem #2 could be space, but even a hundred 1/2oz bottles aughta squeeze in somewhere.

    Ah, happy tinkering

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Like Bkkorn said, the trial size depends on the smallest material in your formula. If you have a formula with only 2 materials and they are both 50% of the formula, it is pretty easy to make this as a very small trial. If you have lots of materials and some are 0.02% of your formula, this means you have to increase the formula size as compared to the first example. Here's 2 things to consider...

    (1) Pipette Control

    So with the smallest pipettes, I can get as low as 0.002 g of material if I blow out the pipette and then blow a tiny bubble. But at this low margin for error, it is hard to be perfect or consistent. A normal drop averages 0.013 g (each material is a different density and mass). So when I make a trial, I adjust my trial size on my spreadsheet until my smallest material is something that isn't as hard to achieve as blowing a tiny bubble. What I mean is, 0.01 g is easier to achieve than 0.002 g.

    (2) Diluted Materials

    ALSO, working with all of your materials diluted means you can make an even smaller trial. If you dilute all your working materials to 20%, this means you can make roughly a 5 times smaller trial than at 100%.
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Or, you can get a scale.

    They're not expensive and if you're serious about perfuming you need it.

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    (1) Pipette Control

    "...blowing a tiny bubble"
    Etc etc etc dispense of the idea that this is "control" immediately pls

    And like I said,

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    (2) Diluted Materials
    This. Don’t multiply you whole formula by a factor of anything. Don’t f around. Don’t blow special ways. Get the cheap decent scale. You already get it from what I can tell, OP

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicomoro View Post
    Etc etc etc dispense of the idea that this is "control" immediately pls

    And like I said,



    This. Don’t multiply you whole formula by a factor of anything. Don’t f around. Don’t blow special ways. Get the cheap decent scale. You already get it from what I can tell, OP
    Who said don’t use a scale? Try reading instead of only making troll comments.
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    Who said don’t use a scale? Try reading instead of only making troll comments.
    Suggesting something doesn’t automatically imply it was a reaction to advising against. What’s going on with you guys? Fragile not in the best way.

    I mean you’re telling me to "read" but you failed to see that I was supporting your ad ice because you were upset I didn’t like the blowing bubbles science right?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Thank you all. This was very helpful.
    @devils son in law, I did exactly what you suggested the other day with diluting my material and its soon much easier to work with, plus I feel like I'm not blowing through material.
    This forum is gem
    This is the scale that I own. Might have to zoom in. I'm still working on my workspace.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by BonyMontana View Post
    Thank you all. This was very helpful.
    @devils son in law, I did exactly what you suggested the other day with diluting my material and its soon much easier to work with, plus I feel like I'm not blowing through material.
    This forum is gem
    This is the scale that I own. Might have to zoom in. I'm still working on my workspace.

    Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
    That's a nice scale you have there. Is that an iBalance scale?
    ...bathing in perfumes...
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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Hey nice space. Yep, I stared out at 100% and not only is it expensive because you go thought a lot of material, it’s hard to make anything less than a 30 ml trial. I had read Jean Claude Ellena’s book where he dilutes his worker materials to 20% and I thought, “Man, you got to buy all those bottles and it’s a lot of work and also costs money.” But then I saw what I was spending. So now with everything at 20%, I can make anywhere from 1.5 ml to 5 ml trials based on the formula. Thanks for the pic.
    Andrew Hugg, Lieutenant Colonel, USAF (retired)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkkorn View Post
    That's a nice scale you have there. Is that an iBalance scale?
    Thank you very much. Yes it is. I purchased it from Walmart and I believe at the time it was only $95.00

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Son In Law View Post
    Hey nice space. Yep, I stared out at 100% and not only is it expensive because you go thought a lot of material, itís hard to make anything less than a 30 ml trial. I had read Jean Claude Ellenaís book where he dilutes his worker materials to 20% and I thought, ďMan, you got to buy all those bottles and itís a lot of work and also costs money.Ē But then I saw what I was spending. So now with everything at 20%, I can make anywhere from 1.5 ml to 5 ml trials based on the formula. Thanks for the pic.
    Thank you! My nose is not as mature just yet and it was hard to smell some material undiluted. My nose was failing on me quickly lol. At 20% its much easier for me to handle.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tweaking Composition & Struggling to get Precise with Pipettes

    If you value the surface finish on your table, I would recommend using a surface protector of some kind... Otherwise your fluid will deteriorate the finish.

    Make plans now for expansion... could be up, could be under the table, could be lateral. But you'll soon need more space.

    You can design in your head some level of organization and system of classification, but be ready to modify, or throw it out and start afresh with a new system and storage organization...
    Paul Kiler
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    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.




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