Aventus ingredients

[Freewayer]

Hi, now it's my time to try make something like aventus I've been trying to do this for a month now. I would like to ask you what do you thing I will need to make it? (I saw tuscaloosatanning's topic)
I have:
Citral
Dihydromyrcenol
Allyl amyl glycolate
Ethyl Butyrate
Benzyl propionate
Dynascone
Alpha damascone
Cassis base
Geraniol
Cyclosia
Citronellol
Linalool Coeur
Linalyl acetate
Cade oil
2-isobutyl quinoline
Ambrox super
Ethyl vanillin
Veramoss
Helvetolide
Ambrettolide
Lyral
Hedione
ISO e super
Timbersilk

Maybe you know some useful accords?

[Triscuit]

Based on my GCMS, you will see the following in there:
Allyl Amyl Glycolate
(Maybe) Benzyl Propionate
Cassis Base
Lyral
Ambrettolide
Helvetolide
Iso E Super
Hedione
very slight touch of vanillin

Dynascone might smell good in it, but I'm not sure if it is in the formula. Your alpha damascone might also go well with the cassis base.

I strongly recommend ambroxan and bergamot oil. You won't get very far without them.

Here's a pineapple accord:
https://sites.google.com/site/perfum...-creed-aventus

If you have money to spend, Jamie has a close rendition of Aventus here:
https://fraterperfumes.com/product/c...plica-formula/

[Freewayer]

Thanks!
I don't know how to make my pineapple more sweet - I heard that there is manzanate in aventus which is pretty sweet, but maybe the sweetness comes from flowers?
I know i can buy Jamie's formula, but... I'd like to try to do it myself and learn something by the way.
If I bought it, I wouldn't be able to share it with you

I will inform you about the progress, maybe someone will find it useful

edit:
I have bergamot, i will try to implement it.
Can i use just Ambrox Super instead of Ambroxan?

[Lisieux]

You've certainly either have talent or have done your homework based on your list above. You've got most of the important notes covered.

Maybe I missed it in your materials listed above, but you seem to be missing the 'patchouli' note. Use Patchoulol as first choice (just my opinion) or Clearwood as a second choice. Use actual patchouli only if you don't have the others.

I don't think there's any manzanate in Aventus (are you thinking of something you might of read about Sauvage perhaps?).

For pineapple, I used AAG, Allyl Cyclohexyl Propionate (sweet), Ethyl Heptoate, dynascone, and a touch of DULCINYL to add sweetness. Any one of those will pass for a pineapple vibe (except dulcinyl which smells only of 'sweetness') but a combo of them if very convincing. Trick is finding the proper balance. Could try some sweet orange oil in there too to sweeten it up.

Definitely use bergamot and yes Ambrox Super rather than Ambroxan.

I think cade oil will be complimented by Birch Tar - both being extremely minutely dosed of course. Although in the end I left cade oil out as it seemed off smelling or something.

Might also try a touch of lime and clary sage in there but only at about 1% each of total concentrate.

Good luck!

[Triscuit]

Thanks!
I don't know how to make my pineapple more sweet - I heard that there is manzanate in aventus which is pretty sweet, but maybe the sweetness comes from flowers?

That's the best way to do it!
I can't vouch on the ambrox super question, because I haven't personally smelled ambrox super.

The sweetness will probably come from the helvetolide, use a good amount of it. And yes, I did forget to mention that patchouli is important here!

[Freewayer]

Thank you very much for your comments!
Unfortunately I have only patchouli EO :/ will it work somehow?

Edit:
Oh, sorry, i also have mahagonate, but, it's top/middle note and not so much patchouli like.

[Triscuit]

Thank you very much for your comments!
Unfortunately I have only patchouli EO :/ will it work somehow?

Edit:
Oh, sorry, i also have mahagonate, but, it's top/middle note and not so much patchouli like.

Yes, I believe aventus uses real patchouli oil. Just not sure what kind.

[Freewayer]

So, i will try.
Meanwhile, I look forward to all suggestions.

[pkiler]

Although in the end I left cade oil out as it seemed off smelling or something.

I usually find that Birch Tar has the off fishy odor, while Cade does not have an off odor...

[chyprefresh]

You could wind up making a decent inspiration of it like tuscaloosatanning did. These formulas have the backbone (chypre backbone in many fragrances mind you) along with a good start to the pineapple accord, but you are about 10 miles away still. Aventus was just too complex, hard to recreate for me to get that charming opening/mid, I've tried and failed, gotten quite close but there's always that surgical precision divided by the complex nature of the fruity esters that I can't get and it never ends up smelling right (even though the materials I use smell right/have an aromatic connection with Aventus). It's 90% the top notes/opening that make Aventus sing and top notes are by far the hardest part in perfumery. Also, I highly doubt Cassis base nor Manzanate is in Aventus (never had any success with them), but hey, they might be along with 100 other potential suitors.

It's quite easy to underestimate this fragrance starting out, but it turns into K2 the closer you get, insurmountable by all but the best in the business. I've lost interest by this point, however I wish you luck, you will need it.

I might try again when I get much better at precision and learn many more materials.

[Lisieux]

Yes, I believe aventus uses real patchouli oil. Just not sure what kind.

I don't think you'll find that in the GCMS.

[Lisieux]

I usually find that Birch Tar has the off fishy odor, while Cade does not have an off odor...

Wierd. Totally opposite of my take on it.

[Triscuit]

I don't think you'll find that in the GCMS.

I beg to differ, I own the GCMS.

[pkiler]

My take on Aventus is that it uses both real Patchouli EO, and seperately Patchulol to bolster.
That's what I would do if I were composing Aventus from the start...

[chyprefresh]

Wierd. Totally opposite of my take on it.

Betula Pendula tar oil (European birch) however does have a fishy odor. I agree that Betula Pendula does not though, Cade neither from what I recall.

[chyprefresh]

My take on Aventus is that it uses both real Patchouli EO, and seperately Patchulol to bolster.
That's what I would do if I were composing Aventus from the start...

I agree. What ratio do you think is optimal?

[pkiler]

I agree. What ratio do you think is optimal?

Can't remember... haven't looked at the gc in awhile, plus, it all depends on which EO you use, anyway...

[chyprefresh]

It doesn't matter regardless, lots of room for error on the mid/base of an Aventus type frag. It's all about the top, and it's crazy precise and complex. Even if you had every ingredient on a platter, getting it to smell right would take so many trials.

[Stefan.E]

My take on Aventus is that it uses both real Patchouli EO, and seperately Patchulol to bolster.
That's what I would do if I were composing Aventus from the start...

What do you think about Clearwood also? It's very clean but still strongly reminds me of patchouli and I can imagine this being used, but I actually have no idea if that could come up as patchouli on a GCMS so I might be saying something very stupid

[pkiler]

What do you think about Clearwood also? It's very clean but still strongly reminds me of patchouli and I can imagine this being used, but I actually have no idea if that could come up as patchouli on a GCMS so I might be saying something very stupid

On Purpose, I've never tried to copy Aventus. Using Clearwood would be just slightly different from Patchouli EO.
Clearwood SDS says 30-40% Patchoulol in it. Which is pretty normal for an EO content.

[Stefan.E]

On Purpose, I've never tried to copy Aventus. Using Clearwood would be just slightly different from Patchouli EO.
Clearwood SDS says 30-40% Patchoulol in it. Which is pretty normal for an EO content.

Interesting, thanks for that info

[Devil's Son In Law]

Regarding the birch tar, I had a sample analyzed of Aventus batch 17Y01. It is supposed to have a lower level of birch tar compared to other batches. The markers for birch tar were all there... Germacrene D, δ-Cadinene, and α-Copaene. It seemed somewhere in the 0.3% range based on the levels I saw.

Regarding patchouli, I had a harder time matching the molecules of the several varieties of patchouli from different patchouli GCMS that I overlaid. Patchoulol, pogostol and Pogostone seemed to indicate a very high level in the 9% range. But the other markers pointed towards a lower level of patchouli. I don't know the makeup of Clearwood, but I'm doubtful that a combo of patchouli and clearwood was used here. Clearwood can be used higher than patchouli EO you would assume. According to the article below, Clearwood contains no pogostone, so that would not make sense that a high level of Clearwood was used with a low level of patchouli EO.

https://edepot.wur.nl/419917

[Lisieux]

I beg to differ, I own the GCMS.

Thanks for the input Triscuit. What does it say exactly (regarding patchouli) if you don't mind sharing.

[Bill Roberts]

Not speaking for Triscuit, but isn't real patchouli oil quite distinct in odor from patchoulol or Clearwood, or any attempted reconstitution/fake?

But as to what kind -- which sort of distillation and origin, perhaps more -- that is a lot harder to discern within a fragrance.

[Lisieux]

Regarding the birch tar, I had a sample analyzed of Aventus batch 17Y01. It is supposed to have a lower level of birch tar compared to other batches. The markers for birch tar were all there... Germacrene D, δ-Cadinene, and α-Copaene. It seemed somewhere in the 0.3% range based on the levels I saw.

Regarding patchouli, I had a harder time matching the molecules of the several varieties of patchouli from different patchouli GCMS that I overlaid. Patchoulol, pogostol and Pogostone seemed to indicate a very high level in the 9% range. But the other markers pointed towards a lower level of patchouli. I don't know the makeup of Clearwood, but I'm doubtful that a combo of patchouli and clearwood was used here. Clearwood can be used higher than patchouli EO you would assume. According to the article below, Clearwood contains no pogostone, so that would not make sense that a high level of Clearwood was used with a low level of patchouli EO.

https://edepot.wur.nl/419917

Amazing! It's comments like this and those from others like Paul and Bill and all the other pros on here that remind me to remain humble as a basement dwelling know-nothing hobbyist! Hat's off to you all!

[Devil's Son In Law]

Hey that’s very nice of you, but Einstein was the only person who even his mistakes turned out to be correct (dark matter, gravitons, etc) but I can’t make that claim for myself by a long shot. Everyone is learning always.

[fragrantregard]

The markers for birch tar were all there... Germacrene D, δ-Cadinene, and α-Copaene. It seemed somewhere in the 0.3% range based on the levels I saw.

Germacrene D cannot be considered a marker of birch; it appears in very high quantities, for example, in ylang — from which commercially available samples are sometimes extracted.

Also, 0.3% birch tar is rather high already. Perhaps more than in the original shalimar, most probably more than in the modern one, which already smells very strongly of those tarry materials.

[Triscuit]

Thanks for the input Triscuit. What does it say exactly (regarding patchouli) if you don't mind sharing.

Paul and Andrew are spot on about patchouli here. It does indicate components of patchouli and the amount of patchoulol is certainly higher. If I were to estimate, I would say it is about a ratio of 2:5 patchouli to 3:5 patchoulol, unless clearwood is used then that number is different.

If doing an attempt to create a rendition of aventus, I don't think it would hurt to start off with just clearwood. Aventus smells pretty fresh, and it would be easy to overdose the patchouli as I have done before.

Hats off to the experts as well

[Devil's Son In Law]

Germacrene D cannot be considered a marker of birch; it appears in very high quantities, for example, in ylang — from which commercially available samples are sometimes extracted.

Also, 0.3% birch tar is rather high already. Perhaps more than in the original shalimar, most probably more than in the modern one, which already smells very strongly of those tarry materials.

That's true, Germacrene D can be in ylang in a large percentage. The α-Copaene is already in patchouli also. So of the largest percentage of birch tar materials, a-Cadinene correlated to a lower level for the birch tar, just under 0.2%. The problem is since birch tar is likely so low, the lower percentage molecules don't show up on the GCMS since 0.0005% is considered trace. But good insight, thanks.

[Freewayer]

Thank you all for comments!

What do you think is the percentage of allyl amyl glycolate and allyl cyclohexyl propionate? Or a whole pineapple chord?
I'm asking because maybe I missed the point completely