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  1. #1
    Basenotes Member IthinkIcancancan's Avatar
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    Default Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    Some perfumes boast a high concentration of essential oils. For example, Acqua Viva eau de parfum I have read uses 40% essential oils, most of which I would imagine are from citrus fruits like Amalfi Lemon. Increasing the level of essential oils will have what effects, exactly, especially when these are citrus essential oils? I imagine the higher concentration adds a greater sensation of naturalness to the beginning phase... but because of their high volatility, I also imagine they all vanish quite quickly and their presence is not felt an hour or so later, even at a 40% concentration.

    OR... if accompanied by the right aroma chemical(s), can this high level of citrus essential oils be stabilized and made to last several hours despite their intrinsic high volatility?

  2. #2
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    40% essential oils vs potentially 40% of lemon are two wayyyy different things. It’s probably the smell the creator wanted. Also there are citrus synthetics like “lemonile” which could be placed in conjunction with the eo to make it last longer or give the effect it lasts longer rather. Also 40% eo’s isn’t an obscene amount either.
    To answer your last question, yes. Though no guarantees I highly doubt it’s 40% citruses but, I could easily be wrong.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    I question the terminology 'naturalness; most aroma chemicals are derived from naturals.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    the feeling of 'naturalness' as opposed to the feeling of a scent being overtly chemical is a complex issue, and certainly not a 1:1 scaling of more EOs/Abs/etc = more natural feeling. But a completely synthetic citric structure could certainly become more pleasurable with naturals added to bring depth.

    that said when it comes to something like said acqua viva-- a bottle that costs over 250$ better fucking have 40% naturals, what the hell else are you paying for!? This is marketing mumbo jumbo. Lemon EO is not expensive, you could spritz yourself with 100% amalfi lemon EO for a fraction of that, so whats the point of bragging about it except that consumers blindly nod along assuming that must be a good thing. There are plenty of indie perfumers who use 100% naturals, for better or worse.

  5. #5
    Basenotes Member IthinkIcancancan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    thank you for your reply. What do you mean, 40% of lemon? Are you referring to the other components of lemon besides lemon EO, like terpenes?

    40% just seems like a much higher than average amount, and if the brand boasts this feature, I am wondering what the buyer is supposed to expect, compared to a perfume that has 15% citrus essential oils.

  6. #6
    Basenotes Member IthinkIcancancan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    Quote Originally Posted by pazzoballando View Post
    the feeling of 'naturalness' as opposed to the feeling of a scent being overtly chemical is a complex issue, and certainly not a 1:1 scaling of more EOs/Abs/etc = more natural feeling. But a completely synthetic citric structure could certainly become more pleasurable with naturals added to bring depth.

    that said when it comes to something like said acqua viva-- a bottle that costs over 250$ better fucking have 40% naturals, what the hell else are you paying for!? This is marketing mumbo jumbo. Lemon EO is not expensive, you could spritz yourself with 100% amalfi lemon EO for a fraction of that, so whats the point of bragging about it except that consumers blindly nod along assuming that must be a good thing. There are plenty of indie perfumers who use 100% naturals, for better or worse.
    Thanks for the reply. Yes I hear you, guess it is more of a marketing tool to hook in those who don't know, than indicating anything actually out of the ordinary, huh? Do you think though that a high concentration of citrus EO make any sort of difference when it comes to prolonging the citrus aroma, vs a smaller concentration of citrus EO? Like I said, I am unsure since the volatility is so high, you'd figure it would all evaporate at once, within an hour, no matter the concentration being high. Of course, if there was the addition of the aroma chemicals that could fix the citrus essential oils from evaporating so quickly, then perhaps a higher concentration of the citrus EO = better outcome?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    I think those are possible, Im very much an amateur but it sounds like something worth setting up an experiment to work out on your own. Maybe create a simple skeleton of ACs without much in the way of fixative/base notes, and test it side by side with a low amount of citrus EO versus a higher amount and see how the notes appear upon spraying, after 30 minutes, an hour, etc. Then do the same but with more base/fixative notes, and the same side by side. That way you can compare the effect of higher or lower dose of citrus EO and whether the fixative effect helps.

    My hypothesis is based on the impression that the evaporation works like a half-life depending on the volatility-- you lose half of the strength after x time, then half again after x time, so increasing the amount of top notes has an effect that falls off exponentially. For example-- say you start with 10 parts vs 20 parts of lemon in your concentrate, and its half life is x minutes

    Start: 10p 20p
    1x: 5 10
    2x 2.5 5
    3x 1.25 2.5
    4x .625 1.25

    So that doubling the amount would result in large differences in smell between 0 and 2 half lives, but after that the differences begin to become negligible. Fixative effect I hypothesize would not have a large impact on this. But testing needed to see whether this bears out!

  8. #8
    Basenotes Member IthinkIcancancan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Increasing the concentration of citrus essential oils

    Quote Originally Posted by pazzoballando View Post
    I think those are possible, Im very much an amateur but it sounds like something worth setting up an experiment to work out on your own. Maybe create a simple skeleton of ACs without much in the way of fixative/base notes, and test it side by side with a low amount of citrus EO versus a higher amount and see how the notes appear upon spraying, after 30 minutes, an hour, etc. Then do the same but with more base/fixative notes, and the same side by side. That way you can compare the effect of higher or lower dose of citrus EO and whether the fixative effect helps.

    My hypothesis is based on the impression that the evaporation works like a half-life depending on the volatility-- you lose half of the strength after x time, then half again after x time, so increasing the amount of top notes has an effect that falls off exponentially. For example-- say you start with 10 parts vs 20 parts of lemon in your concentrate, and its half life is x minutes

    Start: 10p 20p
    1x: 5 10
    2x 2.5 5
    3x 1.25 2.5
    4x .625 1.25

    So that doubling the amount would result in large differences in smell between 0 and 2 half lives, but after that the differences begin to become negligible. Fixative effect I hypothesize would not have a large impact on this. But testing needed to see whether this bears out!
    Very interesting! Thank you for sharing and explaining your hypetheses. I will look more into this.




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