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  1. #1

    Default Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Starting this thread to discuss interesting two-component accords that we have intentionally designed or stumbled upon.

    I'll start with methyl phenylacetate & methyl diantilis (which I stumbled upon accidentally while playing with fougère structure). They are both sort of floral & powdery, so synergize that way. But methyl phenylacetate is light & green & herbal, while methyl diantilis is heavy & dark & spicy. I had them together in a complex fougère experiment and noticed their accord, so started mixing them just one + one. They are both very tenacious, so this accord stays internally balanced & contributes throughout the progression.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Coumarin and Triplal - bruised foliage, florist shop. I call it "green tonka".

  3. #3

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    styralyl acetate+aldehyde c-11= nice vintage top note, very versatile.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Cinnamal + Eugenol is a great starting point for things like gingerbread.

  5. #5
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Apologies in advance knowing you said 2 component accords, but I did stumble upon this, and I'm pretty damn sure this is partially the backbone of "black afgano" from Nasomatto.

    I had it at random parts out of 1000, so sorry to put it in %, but I will show where I had it out of 1000

    Karmawood 31.25% 60
    Patchouli 16.66% 32
    Black Agar Givco 52.08% 100

    Side note, I used "Patchouli Organic" from Eden Botanical, and will guarantee this was not the patchouli used. Also, from reading the scent and chemistry facebook page, the perfumer seems to use "nimberol" in just about every formulation. I am unsure of the slight, if any, differences in the nuances of that and Karmawood, but nonetheless just those 3 smell remarkably close to black afgano. Obviously barely scratching the surface, but yeah

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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    It's roughly:

    6 parts Black Agar (I suppose the original formula has Cashmeran in it)
    3 parts patchouly (if Clearwood used, perhaps even more)
    2 parts Karmawood

    It's insane and great.
    I owe Pardon, which I thought the only wearable of the lot at time but I totally appreciate all these mad Alessandro Gualtieri's fragrances.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    I don't have Karmawood. It looks like I really should then.

    Thank you both!

  8. #8
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    It's roughly:

    6 parts Black Agar (I suppose the original formula has Cashmeran in it)
    3 parts patchouly (if Clearwood used, perhaps even more)
    2 parts Karmawood



    It's insane and great.
    I owe Pardon, which I thought the only wearable of the lot at time but I totally appreciate all these mad Alessandro Gualtieri's fragrances.
    Thanks I’m gonna try that, I never tried to recreate it but what the hell. I know there’s absolutely cashmeranin it His style is very noticeable based on material choice.

    You know those ratios based on a gc or something?

    Pardon is very nice

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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    I mentioned the ratios just because 6:3:2 is like octave and perfect fifth, essentially two tones rather than three. Lame joke, I know, but I don't think anyone minds three ingredients. I took the ratio you suggested and adjusted it a bit.

  10. #10
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by xii View Post
    I mentioned the ratios just because 6:3:2 is like octave and perfect fifth, essentially two tones rather than three. Lame joke, I know, but I don't think anyone minds three ingredients. I took the ratio you suggested and adjusted it a bit.

    My perfect fifth is a little sharp though lol, I get you, much simpler.

  11. #11
    Basenotes Member Big L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    As I mentioned before, when I was starting on this journey, I was fascinated by the combination of Ambroxide and Ethyl Maltol in the ratio of 10:1. It is interesting, I guess, in the same sense that crack cocaine is interesting. A bit more sophisticated variation on this theme might perhaps be Amber Naphthofuran x Ethyl Vanillin.

    I would like, if I may, to suggest that we play a different game. Let's choose two random ingredients and try to find a ratio that will create an interesting accord between them, à la Jean Carles.

    Jean Carles Lotto

    The list it chooses from at the moment is the forum's recommend list of the first 100 ACs. We can change it if you have better ideas (probably at least add some naturals).

  12. #12

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    I like this idea! I got safraleine + iso e super, will try some ratios soon.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Vettiver + myrrh. I love this combination with myrrh soothing the sharp/dry coastal vettiver of mine.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Hydroxycitronellal and Patchouli (I would prefer Clearwood) can yield a very pleasant masculine Accord.
    Kind of Aventus-ish in the base it seems to me.

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    Basenotes Junkie SubUmbra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Big L View Post
    As I mentioned before, when I was starting on this journey, I was fascinated by the combination of Ambroxide and Ethyl Maltol in the ratio of 10:1. It is interesting, I guess, in the same sense that crack cocaine is interesting. A bit more sophisticated variation on this theme might perhaps be Amber Naphthofuran x Ethyl Vanillin.

    I would like, if I may, to suggest that we play a different game. Let's choose two random ingredients and try to find a ratio that will create an interesting accord between them, à la Jean Carles.

    Jean Carles Lotto

    The list it chooses from at the moment is the forum's recommend list of the first 100 ACs. We can change it if you have better ideas (probably at least add some naturals).
    I adore that randomizer tool. I got Styrallyl Acetate (a material I already love) & Cis Jasmone. I can see this working and will report back with ratios.

  16. #16
    Basenotes Member Big L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by SubUmbra View Post
    I adore that randomizer tool. I got Styrallyl Acetate (a material I already love) & Cis Jasmone. I can see this working and will report back with ratios.
    Thank you, SubUmbra.

    calone-veramoss.jpg

    I received this one, and I am surprised to say my favorite ratio is 1:1.

    It's kind of like shoving your head into a used beach towel after it had completely dried in the sun.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by tobacco View Post
    Hydroxycitronellal and Patchouli (I would prefer Clearwood) can yield a very pleasant masculine Accord.
    Kind of Aventus-ish in the base it seems to me.
    This one sounds interesting to try. I guess the ratios would be in the neighborhood of 10:1 (Hydroxycitronellal/Pathouli)?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by SubUmbra View Post
    I adore that randomizer tool. I got Styrallyl Acetate (a material I already love) & Cis Jasmone. I can see this working and will report back with ratios.
    The huge difference in substantivity ( 8hs vs 68hs) won´t be a problem?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Lately it's been Mahoganate + anything. I'm amazed at how many directions that material can take you.
    Also Ethyl Maltol + <XYZ> is a maybe a cheap affect, but it really does fascinating things as a way to "gourmandize" a material. It's like candy-shop gone rogue covering everything in glacée.

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    Basenotes Junkie SubUmbra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by NarcisoM View Post
    The huge difference in substantivity ( 8hs vs 68hs) won´t be a problem?
    Oh, it definitely will. But just seeing what they smell like together is the idea here. If I find a ratio I really like, I can extend the styrallyl with other things.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Trat oud (vanilic, fruity, slight leather and smoke) and champa absolute is wild. I've never smelled anything like the combination of those two.

  22. #22
    Basenotes Member Noobsinth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    I've recentrly discovered an interesting "pair":
    Roman Chamomile EO + Aquaflora (by IFF)

    I tried to search for fragrances that have this combination (Chamomile + Lily-of-the-valley) as mostly recognizable notes on the Fragrantica. There are no such perfumes. There are some that feature one or another or both but not as key notes.

    If you ever slept on a hay-stuffed mattress (usualy it happens in rural area) you will remember the smell.

  23. #23
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by HabibiGotIt View Post
    Trat oud (vanilic, fruity, slight leather and smoke) and champa absolute is wild. I've never smelled anything like the combination of those two.
    Habibi, where do you order your oud from?

  24. #24

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    That would be great to know!

    It's a funny thing when finding something like this -- https://sabilycollection.com/agarwoo...c-currency=USD -- and you have to say to yourself, "Only $130 for 3 g? Hmm, suspiciously cheap! Are they known to be fake or poor quality?"

    Not to mention, the very idea of paying such for a pure-guesswork item.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    That would be great to know!

    It's a funny thing when finding something like this -- https://sabilycollection.com/agarwoo...c-currency=USD -- and you have to say to yourself, "Only $130 for 3 g? Hmm, suspiciously cheap! Are they known to be fake or poor quality?"

    Not to mention, the very idea of paying such for a pure-guesswork item.
    The very poorly photoshopped fake photographs of the supposed product on that website look super shady!

  26. #26
    Super Member Casper_grassy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    It sucks that to find anyone trustworthy puts you on a mission. I do of ensaroud but a lot of his items are blends, not to mention, IMO overly expensive

  27. #27

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    I use a lot of naturals, but I really love ylang ylang extra and tomato leaf absolute at 1:1. Oddly, it smells exactly like Christmas paperwhites to me!

    I've also found some really interesting combinations with wintergreen (I assume you could also just use methyl salicylate in place of wintergreen). Galbanum and wintergreen at 5:3 is beautifully fresh and cold, but also a little chalky in a way I find very addictive. Lavender and wintergreen at 10:3 is also extremely nice--the wintergreen seems to sweeten the lavender and make it very clean and clear.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by mnitabach View Post
    The very poorly photoshopped fake photographs of the supposed product on that website look super shady!
    I may be (actually, I have no idea, I do not know what I am talking about) overpaying with Ensar, but I have had zero reason to doubt the quality.

    Suitability of any given oud to me or a given purpose, absolutely, but not the quality.

    I am a total noob with oud. So far, though, I've found it very interesting in this category we are talking about, two-note accords.

    Cutting and pasting some notes (no pun intended) from last June on 2-note Oud Assafi accords. Anything saying "nothing else" or the like refers only to what I have or was trying. FWIW, which is not much, just light entertainment on the subject, but maybe an example of searching for two-noters. The bold were to catch my attention on re-reading and make sure I did not later overlook those materials as all this was towards planning:

    "Pleasing accords were easy to get with any of Oud Assafi and Bitter Orange John Steele, Lemon Cold Pressed Argentina PA, Neroli Egypt Organic EB, and maybe Bergamot Reggia Italy John Steele, and nothing else in citrus. Lavender 40/42 LN can work but would be real crossroads decision, moving more like fougere. Lavender Absolute WLA interesting, doesn't have to rewrite fragrance, low "frequency" effect. Maillete France PA, smoother and less change to character. Lavender Oil Spanish PSH smoothest of all, easily works to not move from oud character. Geranium Heart or Geranium Bourbon WLA would require moving to near-fougere. Geranium Terpeneless PSH interesting. Geranium Absolute EB, Clary Sage Abs EB, Rosewood Leaf WLA, L-Laurinal Takasago, and Orange Blossom Absolute EB all possible. White Champa Leaf JS AMAZING. Mango Leaf Abs WLA very good. Saxony Thyme Base PSH very interesting but changing character. Methyl Jasmonate Bedoukian promising and kind of a cross-roads decision. Cis-jasmone questionable, surely utter trace if any. Benzyl salicylate no apparent benefit. Timbersilk dubious benefit.

    "...Fir Balsam Coeur Abs WLA though not thematic, a possible modifier. Exaltone, dihydroambrettolide work well, Exaltenone much better than expected. Maybe of use as subtle touches, modifiers etc: ethyl salicylate, geranyl linalool, trans-beta ocimene (trace), cinnamyl cinnamate, Reseda Body, phenylacetic acid, linalyl acetate natural, Animalis 1745-3, neryl acetate, Citron Heart Note WLA, Ambrarome Abs, farnesyl acetate, Petitgrain Abs EB, dimethyl anthranilate, Mastic WLA, Patchouli Amber Abs WLA, cedrol, phenyl ethyl salicylate, and Cistus Organic EB.

    "... L-muscone actually went feminine (to me) in presence of the oud... Saffron Spanish Coupe Zaran tincture (amazing!) works excellently with Oud Assafi either when high or quite low relative to it, but did not play well together at similar levels."

    And there was also this, which btw out of idiocy I failed to take advantage of, got sidetracked and just did not use this finding at all, but certainly need to in future:

    "Simply the two materials only of Oud Assafi and the Sandalwood Supreme JS alone were the best accord (to me) I've ever smelled."

  29. #29
    Basenotes Member Big L's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    I am a total noob with oud. So far, though, I've found it very interesting in this category we are talking about, two-note accords.
    Thank you, Bill, for sharing the results of your experiments.

    I realized I have mixing anxiety when it comes to Oud. I have about 1.5 ml here, which I paid a small fortune for. I used it mainly to learn how the real thing smells, compare it to other ingredients, and develop alternatives. I am sure this experiment is not complete until I mix it with other ingredients and learn their mutual effects. Yet, I am too afraid to waste it.

    What would be a common percentage for you to use in a complete formula?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Interesting Two-Component Accords

    Like you I am afraid to consume it in experiments or questionable efforts, and wherever possible I get my feelings of what it will do from open bottle work, or from adding to skin separately without mixing.

    I have Oud Assafi at the 5% that Perfumer's Apprentice sells it at, and it's so potent that I have been using it (the prediluted material) at only about 1-4% of formula. The five-percent material can even be effective at a little under 1% of formula.

    That is not to say that I think it needs to be limited to no more than 4%, it just is as high as I have gone. As yet I have only had Oud Assafi be a note and effect rather than truly building a fragrance up from Oud Assafi, which I do want to do. I have been reluctant to go so expensive though, even though fact is I already bought the bottle. So that is more feeling holding me back than reality.

    I have not dared to physically blend the Ensar Ouds, except for a tincture of the Resin, which is much less expensive than distilled oud. I have used the Resin at up to 18% of formula, calculated as the weight of Resin used to make the amount of tincture. As well as being less expensive, it's less potent. I don't know how the bang for the buck works out: it's possible it's not as much of a savings as I like to tell myself.




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