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  1. #1

    Default Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    I've had Egyptian Jasmine absolute sitting on a blotter for a week and a half now, and have been evaluating as it slowly dries down. At this point, the aroma is obviously much weaker, but the profile is fresh, slightly green, and very slightly floral. I'm looking at GC results for Jasmine and trying to figure out what the last few chemicals present are. Does anyone have any insight?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Looks like Benzyl Benzsoate, Hexadecanoic acid, Methyl linolenate, Methyl Oleate, and Methyl Octadecanoate.
    And probably some fatty acids too, that didn't show up in the GC.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
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    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Are any of these chemicals one might actually use?

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Geranyl linalool hangs around a while.

    Benzyl benzoate is commonly used but has little smell. I suspect the others Paul named are weak as well. I don't think they are often added deliberately as ingredients but I could be wrong.

    I think geranyl linalool might be used a fair bit, by hobbyists anyway, if it were more available. No US retailer carries it, I believe. I don't know about European or British retailers on that one.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    PCW sells geranyl linalool.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Thank you, Mike! Now I can be a little freer with my Bedoukian sample!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Thank you, Mike! Now I can be a little freer with my Bedoukian sample!
    Does it perform very differently from rosaphen or phenyl hexanol?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Yes, it smells very different than Rosaphen. If calling geranyl linalool "rose" as TGSC does, I would think they must mean the green aspect of rose, not a red or "rosy" one.

    I don't have phenyl hexanol (Mefrosol) but so can't say.

    It's a very "smooth," "natural," easy-blending kind of floral green and goes swimmingly with Methyl Jasmonate Bedoukian and other jasmine materials.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Jasmine Absolute Natural Recreation Payan Bertrand (superb product):
    Compounds eluting after indole... phytol acetate, ethyl linoleate, geranyllinalool, methyl linolenate, ethyl linolenate, phytol, benzyl benzoate, palmitic acid.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    I didn't know they had one! Thank you.

    I would definitely want theirs.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    I wonder about adulteration...? Where did you buy it?
    Paul Kiler
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    You mean the Payan Bertrand?

    But -- unlike SAS MATIÈRES PREMIÈRES ESSENTIELLES -- they plainly say "Mixture of jasmine extract (Jasminum grandiflorum L.) and natural aromatic products," and Pell Wall make clear it's a recreation, unlike...

    Or do you mean Flavorsthenfrags' sample?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts View Post
    Or do you mean Flavorsthenfrags' sample?
    Sorry, I was replying to a comment, but didn't see follow ups, beforehand...
    I was thinking of Flavorsthenfrags comment and raw material said to be Egyptian...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
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    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    What is going to take the longest time to evaporate is not necessarily the heaviest molecules, but any (fragrant) alcohols, or acids.
    (the names of the alcohols will typically end in "-ol" )

    The type of smell you are describing sounds like it is some type of alcohol molecule.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavorsthenfrags View Post
    I'm looking at GC results for Jasmine and trying to figure out what the last few chemicals present are. Does anyone have any insight?
    I looked over this report, and mentioned the largest longest lasting molecules.

    https://artisanaromatics.com/gc-ms/jasmine-absolute.pdf

    A couple of them are not the longest lasting, but may be more to the first question about the odor profile requested: Cis Jasmone and Cis 3 Hexenyl Benzoate. But they are fairly small contributors, compared to the other larger amounts of materials...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by parker25mv View Post
    What is going to take the longest time to evaporate is not necessarily the heaviest molecules, but any (fragrant) alcohols, or acids.
    (the names of the alcohols will typically end in "-ol" )

    The type of smell you are describing sounds like it is some type of alcohol molecule.
    Whether a fragrant molecule is an alcohol has very little to do with how tenacious it is. Many very low tenacity molecules are alcohols & many high tenacity molecules are not alcohols. Neither of the heaviest most-tenacious molecules in jasmine absolute pointed out by Paul, e.g., are alcohols.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    I think the truth is somewhere inbetween and Parker may have merely written imprecisely while having a correct point in mind.

    "What is going to take the longest time to evaporate is not necessarily the heaviest molecules" is certainly correct, and "not necessarily" was a good way to qualify it.

    For molecules of at-all similar weight, the heavier one having no functional groups but double bonds (probably a terpene then) and the lighter one being an alcohol, one would expect the alcohol to have much more substantivity "despite" being lighter.

    But if we allow much more molecular weight for say the terpene vs the alcohol, let's make it caryophyllene vs cis-3-hexenol, then mw would be the bigger factor.

    Also of course, even if limiting consideration only to mw and having an oxygen functionality or not, many of the most substantive materials are ketones rather than alcohols.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I wonder about adulteration...? Where did you buy it?
    I work in a flavor lab, and we had it sitting around; I'm not sure of the vendor. The material is 6 or 7 years old though. Why do you mention adulteration? Is fresh, floral and green not descriptors you'd expect for jasmine's dry down?

    Of the chemicals mentioned in the thread, I smelled what we have in the lab, and it's not benzyl benzoate or palmitic acid, but I think part of the profile I'm getting is from jasmone. Thanks, all, for the help!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    cis-Jasmone is, sadly, only a top note really and would not last nearly as long as you are observing.

    Methyl jasmonate lasts much longer than cis-jasmone. I wouldn't myself describe it as you have described what you smell, but another might, or it might be part of that (and likely would be.)

    On the smell of methyl jasmonate, I am using Bedoukian methyl jasmonate as the reference, not Splendione or Zeppin, which are faint to me though supposedly in theory they "should" be stronger. Bad theory I suspect.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by mnitabach View Post
    Whether a fragrant molecule is an alcohol has very little to do with how tenacious it is. Many very low tenacity molecules are alcohols & many high tenacity molecules are not alcohols. Neither of the heaviest most-tenacious molecules in jasmine absolute pointed out by Paul, e.g., are alcohols.
    I really don't mean to start a fight here, but your first statement does not really have any definite meaning in this context (what do you mean exactly), and your statements after that are mostly logically irrelevant (since they could easily be true but not mean that what I said was wrong).

    I don't mean to be a stickler here, but it's impossible to apply logical reasoning to statements like that.

    I happen to disagree with your first statement, but am not going to get into an argument about it here since I think it would just get bogged down with semantics and logical meanings.

    In your first statement, I could ask what exactly do you mean by that? How are you comparing non-alcohol molecules to alcohol molecules, since there really is not any single direct way to compare the two. Are you talking about selecting them from random lists of fragrance molecules, in which case there could easily be selection bias, with more of the alcohol molecules being smaller? Are are you talking about taking a molecule and adding a chemical functional group onto it to make an alcohol? In that case, I'm sure your statement would be incorrect, at least for most smaller and "medium weight" fragrance molecules.

    Also please realise I am not trying to bash you personally at all, I am just criticising the logic in your statement, not your ability or your intent in making the statement.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Heaviest aromachemicals in Jasmine absolute

    In such cases, two alcohols could be recommended: Linalool or, if its to weak, THC.
    Take a deep breath and contemplate about tenace-tea.




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